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Post by highroyds on Jun 29, 2018 9:20:11 GMT
This came up in the gig rumours thread and it's something I've been thinking about for a long time, but I wasn't sure whether to start this discussion because it felt a bit whiny, like why is nobody posting in our forum, wah wah. I've been in the front row of this fandom since 2009, so I see the activity and I know the numbers. Just as an example, Kasabian Empire started in February 2010. We reached 5,000 followers in September 2014. In the 4 years since we gained about 300. Obviously this is just one corner of the web, not everyone is on Tumblr, we are also on FB and Twitter, maybe Tumblr is just not cool anymore, but it is something we have very much noticed, especially over the past 2 years, because we expected a significant increase in activity with the release of FCOL, which didn't really happen. Our most popular posts used to get over a thousand notes, nowadays 20 is impressive. This forum was very active particularly around 48:13, now it's kind of dead. I understand that some people only post when something exciting happens or when there's a gig they're attending, but even accounting for that, it's been pretty quiet. People still register, they just don't say anything. I feel like everything about FCOL was a bit underwhelming. I genuinely love the album, don't get me wrong, I still find it exciting musically, and I know others do too, but I also saw a lot of people who were disappointed or didn't like it at all. The release was messy. The initial album announcement in 2016 and CK's non-release were insanely frustrating. The only physical singles they released eventually were limited and UK-only. I still don't understand which songs were singles. Then they played the same four songs for 5 months, until they finally played 24/7 and Wasted in September. Only to drop them again immediately. The never-changing setlist became a big point of contention, especially when it turned out that apparently they find it as boring as we do.I think at the core lies the fact that they're really disconnected from their fanbase. There has never been a place for direct communication. They literally don't know who we are and what we like and what we want from them. It shows in their choices. Anyway. Has anyone noticed a similar thing? Have you noticed yourself caring less lately? I know this could be kind of an emotional discussion, so let's try to keep it civil. |
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Post by jayfreeman on Jun 29, 2018 17:38:41 GMT
Well, i noticed that there are a bit less discussions on the forum as well, but i don't believe it is a direct sign of people caring less (it might be though). In fact most people register at forums especially to be up to date, but not necessarily to post something. It is not only talking from my own point of view. Everyone has own reasons of course to do or not to do anything, but as to me, i haven't lost interest in Kasabian or this forum. Yes, the last album might be not a jewel like the previous ones, but it is not the reason to lose the interest in common.
Besides that the hype of social networks and online forums is a liitle over now. People seem to be fed up a little with all online world and don't take it so seriousely anymore. This forum probably experiences the same effect in a way.
But i wouldn't worry a lot to be honest. A lot of people are still here, and exact numbers are not so important in the end. One true fan worth more than hundred, who just came with a popularity wave.
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Post by highroyds on Jun 30, 2018 7:46:09 GMT
Well, i noticed that there are a bit less discussions on the forum as well, but i don't believe it is a direct sign of people caring less (it might be though). In fact most people register at forums especially to be up to date, but not necessarily to post something. It is not only talking from my own point of view. Everyone has own reasons of course to do or not to do anything, but as to me, i haven't lost interest in Kasabian or this forum. Yes, the last album might be not a jewel like the previous ones, but it is not the reason to lose the interest in common. Besides that the hype of social networks and online forums is a liitle over now. People seem to be fed up a little with all online world and don't take it so seriousely anymore. This forum probably experiences the same effect in a way. But i wouldn't worry a lot to be honest. A lot of people are still here, and exact numbers are not so important in the end. One true fan worth more than hundred, who just came with a popularity wave.
That's not really what I'm talking about though. I only used our numbers as an example. It's evident everywhere. If you look at most threads from the past year, so many people are saying something is different, it's not the same, everything feels boring and uninspired. I see it on Dime, nobody tapes a gig anymore. There's rarely anything new on Flickr. They (allegedly) rescheduled the South American tour because they didn't sell any tickets. This is not about me and my forum. |
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Post by stepstr on Jun 30, 2018 8:41:17 GMT
To add more to what has already been said above I have a thought that Kasabian themselves have gotten bored? Bored of living in the hotels, playing the same very cities, same venues, same festivals, same songs (hi, setlist thread). Personally, these reasons seem plausible to me. Serge seems to be into clothing now. I have no idea whatsoever what Tom might be doing in the meantime. We see Ian and his drum company, then also The Duval Project of course. I really like highroyds version about disconnection from fanbase. They all are definitely some of the nicest fellas you can meet and when you do they are always lovely but it's true that they've never shown any interest in fanbase. Also I'm grateful that this very topic is finally being discussed. |
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Post by highroyds on Jun 30, 2018 9:12:12 GMT
I really like highroyds version about disconnection from fanbase. They all are definitely some of the nicest fellas you can meet and when you do they are always lovely but it's true that they've never shown any interest in fanbase. I feel a bit horrible saying they have no interest. They just don't really know who they're playing to. See the setlist thing. I think it might have something to do with the fact that until 2011 they were always really proud to be one of the last bands to have made it without the internet. Which may be true, but they ended up not using it to their advantage for a really long time. Back in the day (early days until pre-2011) there was the official forum, which was frequented by friends, family and members of the band. It was the only place to be and if something was going on you could be relatively sure that someone from their management would end up seeing it. Then there was a mysterious dispute where they apparently wanted to run their own website and Sony didn't let them (?) which is how Kasabian Live came about. During this time the forum, along with almost a decade of history, was deleted. They hired someone to look after their online stuff, actually had a Twitter account for the first time, but it was always messy and had a sort of abandoned air about it. There was no way of contacting anyone anymore. There still isn't. And because of this, there is no link between us and them. They need someone to keep an eye on the fandom, know what we want, our reactions to certain things. At the end of the day it's a business and you need to know your customer. Anyway, I don't really think they're bored or tired or sick of it. I haven't seen them this year, but especially after TCT and Bristol people were saying they're back, the atmosphere seemed great, they added lots of new bits to songs. They literally can't be tired after playing 6 gigs in 6 months. If they want to take a break they absolutely should, but idk. |
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Post by jayfreeman on Jun 30, 2018 13:46:09 GMT
Well, i noticed that there are a bit less discussions on the forum as well, but i don't believe it is a direct sign of people caring less (it might be though). In fact most people register at forums especially to be up to date, but not necessarily to post something. It is not only talking from my own point of view. Everyone has own reasons of course to do or not to do anything, but as to me, i haven't lost interest in Kasabian or this forum. Yes, the last album might be not a jewel like the previous ones, but it is not the reason to lose the interest in common. Besides that the hype of social networks and online forums is a liitle over now. People seem to be fed up a little with all online world and don't take it so seriousely anymore. This forum probably experiences the same effect in a way. But i wouldn't worry a lot to be honest. A lot of people are still here, and exact numbers are not so important in the end. One true fan worth more than hundred, who just came with a popularity wave.
That's not really what I'm talking about though. I only used our numbers as an example. It's evident everywhere. If you look at most threads from the past year, so many people are saying something is different, it's not the same, everything feels boring and uninspired. I see it on Dime, nobody tapes a gig anymore. There's rarely anything new on Flickr. They (allegedly) rescheduled the South American tour because they didn't sell any tickets. This is not about me and my forum. Well, i see your point. I would blame it on the last album. Maybe it was too mainstream for them after all. Normally Kasabian were underground music, rather than just general and radio-friendly Britpop. I do not know if that was a wilful choice, but the last album was different. This kind of stuff leads to more youtube views of course, but also to loosing some part of hardcore fans. Remember when people were talking here about the future album, so many fans wanted WTF album. But we have got the exact opposite - the most conventional of their albums so far. Probably they do really need that WTF album as next one, maybe even some IDM staff, like Radiohead did a couple of times. That will turn people back to Kasabian. |
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Post by dingo on Jul 1, 2018 10:08:06 GMT
I can only speak for myself, but at the moment I am listening to all the albums, backwards and as much as I enjoy the last 2 - I do! - I feel they peaked with the first four, each of which IMO is special in a way the last 2 are not. But maybe that is unfair, as I had more time to love the first four? Maybe they should take a break, do some solo albums or collaborations (so that we still get music, but different) and then come back and give us that WTF?! album I very much want from them.
One thing is clear, they are great musicians, Serge a great songwriter and I'm still in love with Tom's voice and like Serge's a lot as well.
Oh, and no more joke songs, please! Even though there is a fine line between "Velociraptor!" which I adore and "Eez-eh" which I don't.
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Post by highroyds on Jul 1, 2018 14:04:59 GMT
Oh, and no more joke songs, please! Even though there is a fine line between "Velociraptor!" which I adore and "Eez-eh" which I don't. This! I do like Eezeh, but I feel like especially since 48:13, they have been in this kind of bubble where everything is an inside joke, half of the album is somehow related to Leicester, or to people they know. Of course artists evolve, and I wouldn't want Serge to write the first album over and over, but I kind of miss that universal appeal. This is more my own problem than theirs because I could just ignore what they say in interviews and make it my own anyway, but I used to find myself in their songs so much, feel like they're talking directly to me. And nowadays I don't get that anymore because we already know that this song is about a friend's bad break up, this is about the Leicester accent, this is about being on tour, this is about listening to Neil Young with Tom... Maybe it has something to do with the fact that they produce everything themselves now. There is nobody with a different perspective turning up and saying "are you sure you want to rhyme bugle with Google?" And I kind of want them to do what they want and not give a shit, but I also want it to be good and not so far up their own arse. |
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Post by flipflop on Jul 4, 2018 18:43:29 GMT
Interesting thread this. Some really great points and thoughts, but the truth is, it's really hard to gage.
It does feel like maybe the tide's going out a little, but how do you measure it? They're still selling tickets in the UK, Italy and Japan. They're not playing smaller venues. The promotion for the South America tour sounded poor and mightn't be a true picture. And people don't post on forums so much now, except for Reddit and Mumsnet. Neither of which are likely Kas-fan hangouts.
And last year did feel all sorts of wrong but then there were obviously issues with Tom and probably other issues that we don't even know about that affected FCOL.
I don't even know where I'm going with this post tbh, lol. Other than to say that this: Maybe it has something to do with the fact that they produce everything themselves now. There is nobody with a different perspective turning up is something I totally agree with. But... it's not just Kasabian. Eery other band seems to produce themselves now, I guess so long as people don't pay for recorded music, the budget for outside producers just isn't there.
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Post by pistolsatdawn on Jul 11, 2018 3:32:11 GMT
Well a friend of mine thought the same about this months ago. Years ago, they did some tour videos, Sticks and Bones, Test Transmission and even Serge taking over their twitter to interact with us but it seems like they're not too bothered now. I never lose interest in them, I always go back listening to theirs but I just hope they start doing something that makes us feel close to them like we used to be.
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Post by highroyds on Jul 11, 2018 16:07:16 GMT
Serge taking over their twitter to interact with us Have they ever used Twitter to interact with fans? I know Serge has tweeted occasionally, but I don't remember him talking to people. And HQ don't either. |
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Post by pistolsatdawn on Jul 11, 2018 19:37:40 GMT
Serge taking over their twitter to interact with us Have they ever used Twitter to interact with fans? I know Serge has tweeted occasionally, but I don't remember him talking to people. And HQ don't either. You can search with #sergiosupertracklist on twitter. Just looked back and I’m not sure if it was really Serge or the guys from HQ but if it was him, it was very kind of him to join in. |
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Post by highroyds on Jul 11, 2018 19:52:22 GMT
Have they ever used Twitter to interact with fans? I know Serge has tweeted occasionally, but I don't remember him talking to people. And HQ don't either. You can search with #sergiosupertracklist on twitter. Just looked back and I’m not sure if it was really Serge or the guys from HQ but if it was him, it was very kind of him to join in. Ah ok, I don't remember that at all. But that was one thing five years ago, I wouldn't really call that "they used to talk to their fans" |
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Post by westrydermaniac7 on Jul 13, 2018 14:27:01 GMT
In which way could they be closer to the fanbase?Changing more often the setlists?Some meetings with fans?By chatting?I don't know...Is there a band who really cares that much about its fanbase?
Personally,I don't think people care less and since there're many places on the net to see news about the band,maybe most people can't be active everywhere and all the time.It's normal.
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Post by highroyds on Jul 13, 2018 16:00:17 GMT
In which way could they be closer to the fanbase?Changing more often the setlists?Some meetings with fans?By chatting?I don't know... I said this above, they need someone to be a link between them and the fans. I'm not saying Serge needs to read every tweet or I want to fill out a customer satisfaction survey after every gig. But they are completely oblivious to what's going on and so is their management. Nobody reads tweets or comments. If there is a real issue, there is no way of getting through to anyone. And that's the key to the setlist issue as well. Fans are bored, band doesn't know fans are bored, band is bored because they think fans only want to hear LSF = frustration on both sides. I don't doubt that they care. They just don't hear us. I don't follow many bands closely, but I've seen for example the social media people of The National and The Gaslight Anthem communicate very efficiently with their fans. In case of The National I remember a confusing ticket situation and they were responding quickly to every Facebook comment. In case of The Gaslight Anthem they were offering a special VIP package where fans could attend soundchecks. They received a lot of negative feedback and cancelled the whole thing within a few hours of announcing it. Now imagine those things happening with Kasabian. Actually, don't imagine, because it happens all the time. They forget to announce a presale, they tweet the "special fan presale" link to the general public so it's sold out it 4 seconds, they announce a gig on the wrong day, they don't announce gigs at all and we find out about them by accident... might as well shout into your garden about that. The other situation is also a familiar one. Kasabian release things that are limited to a certain demographic all the time. I don't want to get all communist here but when is a competition ever open to people outside of the UK? Their only singles of the FCOL era were released in a limited quantity in the UK. Most recently their O2 gig was released exclusively for people who own a headset and that MelodyVR nonsense. And I'm sure that wasn't a malicious move. They were probably approached by that company "do you want to release that gig" and said yes. Or their management did. Nobody thinks. All they need is people who are kind of aware of what the fans say. I can't think of any situation where they're getting actual feedback otherwise. When you meet them after a gig or on the street, of course you're going to say "omg I love you and everything you do is perfect" and not "by the way you should drop WDATLG from the setlist because I'm really sick of it." That's why talking to fans directly won't do anything. I don't want them to creep on this forum or anything, but it's a fact that there's a huge disaprity between what I hear from fans and what the band thinks fans want. Nobody here is claiming to speak for everyone. I'm sure there are loads of fans who are completely happy with what they do. But I can't argue with how much the overal activity and interest has plummeted on every platforum. From bootlegs on Dime to their own Twitter, it's just all died down. |
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